[00:13] Rachel: Hey, writers. Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
[00:18] Emily: I'm Emily.
[00:19] Rachel: And I'm Rachel.
[00:20] Emily: And today we're going to look at the question, do writers actually discover their story? So I asked this question on Instagram and an Instagram post last week or something after I was having a conversation with a client. And we were talking about her fears about making the wrong decisions in building her story. Because we're at the beginning of our program together, and so we're talking a lot about character development and backstory, and we're getting into story structure and where is her story going to start and what is the story going to look like? Those big questions that feel overwhelming. And I think I get the question all the time of, like, what is the right answer? I don't know if your clients ask you that every single coaching goal.
[01:07] Rachel: Is this the right midpoint? Is this the right story point? Is this the right internal obstacle? Everything.
[01:14] Emily: So my brain, of course, then I get in the shower and my brain goes through this rabbit hole of just irritation with that question of is it right? And how writers always ask that, and I always end up asking that. I'm like, am I making the right decisions? What is the right decision? And I had a coach once tell me, a coach that was coaching me. There are no right decisions. There's just the decisions that you make and there's the decisions that you decide to stand behind. And so my brain went down this rabbit hole as I was staying in the shower of like, what does it mean to discover your story versus creating your story? And I started to get really frustrated with the word discover because I feel like when we say that we're discovering something, it gives me this idea of sailing across an ocean and discovering a new land or like discovering a new vaccine or a new, like, I guess, element. You create a vaccine, but yeah, discovering a new element or something scientific or a new animal or something like that, and you're discovering something that fully, wholly exists that you just didn't know existed. And I think this question of am I making the right choice? And am I going to get to the right finish line comes from this idea of maybe it's subconscious, but this assumption that your story is something like, fully flesh that's out there that you need to find, and that breeds the questions of am I making the right choice? Like, am I taking the right turns? Am I going in the right direction? Am I making the right decisions to get to that end game of that thing that's out there that you're trying to discover? And it just doesn't your story doesn't exist yet. We're making it. So anyway, I'm going to pause there because I want to go through the comments too. Because I got some really interesting pushback, mostly from folks who were saying, I do very much discover my story. I discover it as I go. And I know that you have talked about yourself as the discovery writer, so I'm curious, like, what's coming up?
[03:37] Rachel: Yeah, well, I have, and if you maybe would have asked me this question five years ago, I would have absolutely said, I am a discovery writer. I discover it as I go, and that's it. Because my process, I mean, it was very close to panting, and what it looks like for me is I would just sit down and write, and things would come to my brain and happen, and I would say, like, yes, that was my discovery writing process. But as I learned more about craft and as I learned more about structure and I'm going to add a very strong asterisk here as I made it work for my brain. I call myself less of a discovery writer, but I still very much understand that sentiment. But for me now I have, like, using your example of going out, exploring, I would say that I have a roadmap. I have milestones on the road map. If I'm looking at a map where I'm going to go out and explore an unknown land, I know at least over here there's a rock. I know at least over here, there's a Whirlpool that I need to avoid. I would have those markers on the map, but I'm still filling in all of the unknown space here. There be dragon space that fog on the map. But now that I know more about craft and now that I also feel way more confident in my own choices, I recognize that I am making mini choices every time I choose to put something on the page. And so it might be a little bit of, oh, let's see what happens, let's see what choices I make. But I don't think I'm just uncovering a finished version of my draft. Like, I'm a paleontologist digging for a fossil that's like, there already. I know I'm making those choices, and I think I give myself agency over those choices now where previously I wouldn't.
[05:50] Emily: Yeah, I think that's what it comes down to, and that's because the pushback or not pushback, but, like folks were saying absolutely. Yeah, the thoughts that folks were giving in my comments were like, I absolutely discover my draft. Like, it's this magic of discovering the story as I'm writing my first draft, and the magic of and I do think that word is tied to that, the magical feeling of creation, which can feel and I think Elizabeth Gilbert says this right, that the idea, like, comes to you. It's not yours.
[06:20] Rachel: It like, yeah, the universe gives it to you.
[06:23] Emily: Gives it to you. And, like, I believe like, I also love the magic of of storytelling and creation, and I think it's really powerful, but I think there's a big difference in the nuance between you're discovering something that's outside of yourself versus digging deep to discover what you want to say. And I think that's what a lot of people were saying in the comments because I do believe that when we're writing a story, most of the story is coming from our subconscious. And that's what gives us the magical feeling that's what gives us, like, the awe and wonder of discovering something is because we're digging into ourselves to really articulate what our subconscious is trying to do with the story and what we're trying to say. And I love that. And I do think that the word discover can be applied to that. But I think where it goes wrong is when we take the agency away from ourselves and put it on this outside thing and then we get into this question of what's right and what's wrong.
[07:21] Rachel: Yes.
[07:23] Emily: And so that was where it was coming from for it. Yeah.
[07:27] Rachel: I think our lives so often are determined by the dichotomy of right and wrong. Like, we live in this dichotomy of right and wrong. There are right things and there are wrong things. And as gray as our world truly is, many of us try to see it in very black and white terms. And on top of that, there's also the judgment of the wrong, the mistakes, the failures, huge judgment of that. So this question like, is this the right thing? There's so much behind that. We can unpack that forever. It doesn't matter if it's the right or wrong thing, but why are you judging this choice? It's just a choice you're making for your story that you can change later. Like, there's not a wrong decision, but we feel that way. And we feel like if we make the wrong decision, the story won't turn out right, and then it's not going to be the thing we envision, and then people are going to hate it, and then people are going to hate us, and we're bad so much there. And just this question of, okay, why are we calling it right or wrong in the first place? It's not. It's a choice that you're making that you end up deciding, do you want to keep that choice? Do you want to change that choice? That's it. Yeah.
[08:42] Emily: I love that there's no right or wrong. I really believe there's just decisions that you make that you can stand behind in the moment. Right decisions that feel. And this is what comes down to, like, trusting your gut and trusting what feels right because it comes down to, yes, you're discovering what your subconscious wants to say and that's really hard and can feel like fuzzy and messy and cloudy and like, you have no idea what you're trying to do on the page. But learning to trust your gut feelings about where you want the story to go is the only way to make the best decisions in the moment. And yeah, of course those decisions can change, and they will change as you get more clarity on what you want to say. But you have to make those choices like nobody else. I had another conversation coming back to me with a client recently who was just finishing up her program, and we were going through the end of her outline, and she was deciding to do a negative arc for a character that was not your typical negative arc. And it was going to be different from what reader expectations are for those types of stories, at least in the culture in which she wants to publish that story. And she was like, well, can I do that? Can I do that? Is that the right choice? And I was like, you can do.
[10:03] Rachel: Whatever.
[10:07] Emily: You know, that it's going to feel a little different for readers. So what if that's what feels right for this character? If that's what feels right for this story, that he takes longer to change than your typical character? So what, just stand behind it? I think those red flag questions was like, is this the right choice? Can I do this? Is this wrong? Back up from those questions and ask yourself, why are you making those choices for your story? And where are those decisions coming from for you? And like, gut check, do they feel the best for your story right now? And who cares if you change them later?
[10:52] Rachel: Yeah, I think I'm seeing two things that are coming out of this question or this idea of discovery, and then I think they're cyclical. I don't think it is like, one leads directly to another. I think they go back and forth. But the first one is the idea that you have to have agency over your choices. And that's not a bad thing. Responsibility is a heavy word, but make the choice. Just do it. Make the choice. Own it. Own it. Exactly. So when you're thinking about your writing, at some point you just need to choose something, and then the other piece is letting go of the idea of right or wrong. And you're going to circle back between those two things, like, constantly. But the harder that you criticize a choice that you end up changing later, the harder it is to believe in that choice in the first place. You will constantly say, well, I'm just discovering it because I think that takes away.
[12:00] Emily: Yeah, it takes away the responsibility of having to say, I made that choice.
[12:04] Rachel: Yes, because you're just saying, I'm discovering what my story says. Absolutely. Part of me is like, I understand that, find it. But the other part of me is like, everything that you uncover in the story is an idea that you had. It wasn't just like, that came from within you, like what you were saying. And so at that moment that you're choosing to follow that idea, you have chosen that and you might change it later, and that's not a big deal. It's not a bad thing. That is the process. There's a reason that people say that writing is revising because it's constant revisions all the time.
[12:42] Emily: Because, I mean, you are discovering okay, I don't hate the word, but you are discovering what you want to say, and that's 100% okay. So I think it comes down to my original question was like discover versus create. Could you put the word create everywhere, where we're using discovery in this context? And I think that you could, but if that takes the magic away from you, fine. Don't give the magic your agency.
[13:10] Rachel: Exactly. Tagline yeah. Don't let it take away from your confidence either. Just because you end up changing something later doesn't mean that that was a wrong choice. It just means that you've learned new information and now it's time to change plans. That happens all the time.
[13:32] Emily: And just because you owned a choice that you then later changed doesn't mean that that was the wrong choice.
[13:37] Rachel: Yeah, exactly. It was just the choice that you.
[13:39] Emily: Made at the time based on the information you had about what you thought you wanted to do with the story.
[13:44] Rachel: That's it. That's it.
[13:46] Emily: So you can own that choice and then own the next choice on the next one that you make to change it.
[13:50] Rachel: Yeah. Do you know what? This goes beyond writing.
[13:56] Emily: Everything does.
[13:56] Rachel: You know what? Yeah, actually, my husband has been listening to our podcast. I think I mentioned that, too.
[14:02] Emily: I will.
[14:03] Rachel: He's lovely. He's wonderful. I love him. He says to me every time he listens to a new episode, he is not a writer, but he always says, your podcast is so good for people that aren't writers because it has so much to do about life. I'm like, yeah, it does. So here I go again. This is the life thing. A big part that I believe of maturity and growth is to be able to look back on your past choices and say, hey, I believe something different now. I'm going to do something different now. That doesn't mean I was a bad person in the past. I just had different information. So now I'm going to do something different now in my present, because that's the only thing that I can change, and I'm going to believe something different. I'm going to change my values, I'm going to act different, my behavior will be different. And you don't look at your past and hate it. You don't. Shame. I know shame. We always come back to shame, don't we? But you say, oh, I've grown as a human being. I see the world in a different light, and so therefore, I make different choices. It's the same with life as it is with writing. When you grow up, you learn new things and you do things differently. That's life. That's writing. As the more you learn, the more you grow, the more your skills get stronger. The more you look at story differently, the more you decide things about your story. You make changes life.
[15:30] Emily: I love it. Yeah. It's so applicable. And this is huge for those moments when you look back on a draft and you're like, cringe, massive fundamental thing needs to change and I'm about to blow the whole thing up. And that moment happens to everybody.
[15:47] Rachel: Everybody.
[15:47] Emily: And this question and I think what we're talking about in this episode is the difference between falling into a wallowing pit of shame that you made the wrong choice back then and accepting that you can now see the story in clear light and you know what you want to do.
[16:05] Rachel: Yay. Let's celebrate and move forward. Exactly.
[16:09] Emily: So if you're in that spot, go relisten to this again.
[16:12] Rachel: Yes. And take grab hold of that agency and that confidence in your own choices. Give yourself a little bit of love. A lot, a lot of self love and permission to do things differently at some point in the future if that is what you feel like is best for your story. And you will get very close to the vision in your head when you write with that attitude.
[16:39] Emily: Yeah, 100%. Awesome.
[16:43] Rachel: Love it. Okay, so as we wrap up here, don't forget if you have a writing question or a Craft mindset community question or a roadblock that you're currently facing and you want us to provide some advice or some coaching on one of our podcast episodes, send us an email at [email protected]. Put podcast question in the subject line and we are going to collect these questions. And at some episode in the future, we will answer them and provide advice and coaching to help you get unstuck and get back to the page.
[17:18] Emily: We can't wait to hear what you guys want us to talk about. And if it's not even a question, if it's just like talk about how to do this, yeah, send that to us too.
[17:26] Rachel: That's perfect. All right. If you want to build a site successful, fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
[17:35] Emily: Sign up now to get our free email course. The magic of character arcs. After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night, linked.
[17:45] Rachel: In the show notes. We'll see you there. Thanks, guys.
