[00:13] Rachel: Hey, writers.
[00:14] Emily: Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
[00:18] Rachel: I'm Rachel.
[00:19] Emily: And I'm Emily.
[00:20] Rachel: And today we want to talk about staying true to your humanity. What do you mean by that?
[00:28] Emily: Well, let's start. We've got a little story yes, okay. For you guys. And we're going to start with that, and then we'll get to the depths of humanity.
[00:38] Rachel: I would love to start this one.
[00:40] Emily: Yes, please do.
[00:41] Rachel: A couple of weeks ago, and by the time this podcast comes out, it will have been a little bit longer. But anyway, a couple of weeks ago, we sent out an email that had a curse word in it, and we cursed on the podcast. We said, this is explicit, by the way. We said fuck.
[00:58] Emily: Whoa. And then we said shit.
[01:01] Rachel: Yes. Okay. Now, jokes aside, so we said bad words, and we got quite a few emails back to us asking us or actually, it was a combo. It was number one, telling us what they thought about our cursing. And basically the feedback boiled down to that. They felt like our cursing made us seem less educated, less credible, unbecoming, inappropriate, and it devalued the content that we send out into the world. And at the same time, it asked us to stop cursing as much and that they would enjoy us more if we stopped cursing as much. Before we jump into this podcast because we're going to dive into that, I want to say that everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Everyone's opinions are valid, and this podcast is not trying to rag on those people, but is exploring that idea of when you give feedback to someone on a specific thing. Now I'm talking about Emily and I. What do we do with that? What do we do with that feedback that is telling us they don't like swearing, it doesn't make us look good, and they want us to change. What do we do with that? So that's what this podcast is about. Again, everyone's entitled to their own opinions. That's perfectly okay. We're not, like, shaming those people. We're not ragging on those people. But we do think this is a very important thing to talk about in this platform because it applies so closely to writing. The vulnerability of putting your words and thoughts out into the world and staying true and reflecting who you are as a person. Everything we're talking about here is going to match, like, this is who we are. But we also want you to be able to translate that to your writing, to say, this is who I am, and give yourself, like, a boundary to say, I don't accept that feedback, or I do accept that feedback based on, this is who I am, this is what I want to write. This is the image I want to put out into the world.
[03:17] Emily: So much of this, because this definitely relates to writing. It sounds a little silly.
[03:23] Rachel: Okay.
[03:23] Emily: We're up in arms because people told us not to swear, right?
[03:26] Rachel: Yeah.
[03:27] Emily: Ultimately, we're not really, because we're not going to stop swearing. The reality is that we swear as people. We swear when we're talking to each other. We swear on our Master classes, we swear on our podcasts. We swear in our emails. We really don't swear that much.
[03:42] Rachel: We really don't.
[03:43] Emily: But we don't hold back. We don't want that back. We're not swearing more because we're not swearing in any capacity because of what other people think. We're not holding back because we're afraid people will shame us. We're not swearing because we think that that will somehow make us look cool. We are just swearing because that's just naturally how we communicate. And sometimes a carefully placed swear word for us, in our opinion, in our expression of communication, is really useful. What we're getting at is that how we talk on our podcast, in our classes, in our emails, is an authentic representation of who we are and how we take up space in the world.
[04:26] Rachel: Yes.
[04:27] Emily: And that's fine. If you don't like that, that's not you, that's fine. If somebody doesn't like that, they are welcome to unsubscribe. That's fine. No hard feelings. Yeah, no hard feelings at all. But the point is that we're not going to change who we are and how we express ourselves in the world because it doesn't fit someone else's preferences. And this is a very important writing lesson, because in your stories, it's likely that there are things that you question sometimes a lot of this is self policing, self shaming. The number of times I've had conversations with my clients who ask me, is my book too erotic? Is it going to shame people? Is my book too violent? Is it excessive? Is my book too political? Is it too controversial? Is it too XYZ? Right? Is it too much in some way? And what they're really asking is, am I too much? Right? Am I not worthy? Is how I want to express myself bad somehow?
[05:29] Rachel: Yes.
[05:30] Emily: And so this can come from the inside, it can also come from the outside. It can come from feedback from others who you share your work with, who say, oh, that's too explicit, that's too gory, that's too whatever, right? And what we want to get across to you in today's episode is that if someone is asking you to change your writing to fit their preferences, then what they're doing is they are asking you to change who you are to fit their preferences.
[05:55] Rachel: Right?
[05:56] Emily: And therefore their feedback does not matter at all.
[05:59] Rachel: Yeah, it's not helpful. It's not going to help you grow as a writer. And I want to also acknowledge in this conversation that writers write for readers. We have an audience, we have a marketability question, but that's separate from what we're talking about here. I never would coach a client or a writer or a friend to block out their light, to diminish themselves, to meet a wider reader audience. That's not what we're talking about here. So if you're thinking, but I want to sell more books, what if I was more palatable for the marketplace? That is not this question. This question is that you have a desire for your book. You know who your ideal reader is. You want it in that person's hands, but you still are afraid that you are too much. You are not the feedback that's telling you that something is too much, not applicable. You can put it on the side. You can say, thank you for your opinion, but I'm going to stick to what I know is right for my story. Just like we're going to stick to what we know is right for our voice, our authentic tone. The way we talk to people is who we are. So we're showing up in that way. So whoever you are, show up in that way in your story. And you don't need to diminish yourself because someone else is telling you that it would be better. You would be smarter, you would seem more approachable, you would seem more credible. If only you met my standards. Yeah, that doesn't exist. Everybody's standards are different. It is impossible for you to try to fit every single person's expectations of you. So just do what you want. Just like be your authentic self. Show up in your story that way and leave the rest on the side. You don't need it. It's okay. And if a reader then chooses not to pick up your book, that's also perfectly fine. They're not the right reader for your book. We are at golden may of the very sound mind that your book is not going to be for everyone. So stop trying to make it be for everyone. Make it be what makes you proud, and you will find the readership that matches that. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. We don't write palatable books for every single person in the market. Number one, because it's impossible, and number two, because it's boring. Boring.
[08:26] Emily: You're dimming your humanity, which means that you are not going to be able to connect with others humanity. Who needs you to connect with them?
[08:32] Rachel: Who need you to connect them?
[08:33] Emily: Yeah. Okay. I'm going to push back. Maybe this is going to be controversial. I don't know. Maybe push back a little bit on what you said at the beginning of the episode about those people are entitled to their opinions. They are. They are 100% entitled to their opinions. Where I want to kind of push back a little bit is that I don't know that they're entitled to let us know.
[08:51] Rachel: Oh, 100% agree. Yes. I am so with you there.
[08:55] Emily: Yes. Okay. I want to bring this up because this is an important feedback point for people, for writers who are giving feedback. Because if you're giving feedback to somebody.
[09:09] Rachel: It can be.
[09:10] Emily: Let's say that I'm not always a super gory person, right? So if I was trading pages with somebody whose pages were really dark or hit on a topic that was traumatic for me, right? Like I don't love to read about sexual assault, but there are very important stories out there and very important explorations of that trauma and journeys around those trauma. Those stories need to be in the world. They're just not for me, right? And so if I was trading pages with somebody who was working on something like that, I have to be careful that I don't let my personal preferences slip into how I'm giving feedback, right? Because that can be so damaging. If you've been on the side of receiving feedback that says this is too much, you should make it more palatable, then you know what that feels like. And you don't want to do that to other people. But it can be easy to do if you're uncomfortable, right? If I'm shocked by all of a sudden there's sexual assault on the page and I'm uncomfortable, right, it might slip out that I don't know, that might be too dark, that might be whatever, right? And we can't do that to each other. We cannot do that to each other. And so I can be honest and say, hey, this is a topic that's triggering for me. You need to explore what you need to explore. But this story is not for me to critique. So we have to be careful about how we give that feedback because yes, swearing silly, right? People sent us these little emails but they told us we were unbecoming. Unprofessional. They were shaming who we are as people. Because that's how we communicate as people. And we know that that's how we communicate as people. We are solid in that. But the writer might not be. It might be something that we're working through that we have shame about, that we're trying to explore on the page. And if somebody shames us, it's going to make it a lot harder to get that story out. And we need those stories, right? If we were uncomfortable, and we have been in the past, we have been, we've had conversations back when we were less sure about who we were as a business and how we wanted to communicate. When people gave us emails like that, it was really hard to hear and we would change how we spoke and we don't want that. The world needs you to express yourself the way that you are, as you are, without changing. We're at a point now where we can laugh at those emails when they come in and we're just like thank you, please unsubscribe. If it's uncomfortable, we're not going to change, right? Or we just don't respond, which is totally fine. You are not obligated to respond to feedback that is unsolicited, that is shaming you. You just don't have to. So no, I don't want to shame those individual people's opinions, but I don't think that they approached it in the right way.
[11:56] Rachel: I 100% agree with you, and I think that there's something when you are that reader, for example, and with these emails that we receive, some of them are like very vilely polite. Some of them seem just outright rude. Right. They all have a tone of I'm helping you. I'm helping you get better.
[12:19] Emily: Well, the first tone is, I'm uncomfortable. I saw this subject line and I just was triggered and like, I don't want to do that to you. Get off my list. I would hate to have that effect on you.
[12:32] Rachel: Yes. And they have this attitude that they're doing us a favor by bringing it to our attention that they are uncomfortable. If you as a reader are feeling that of like, do I bring it up? Do I say that this isn't my preference? What do I do about it? I don't like it because XYZ reasons, that is where if you are going to give feedback to a writer, you need to sit with that and say, is this my preference? Or is this a valuable piece of feedback about this work that this author can do something about and that they might want to do something about? There is a difference. I understand it's a foggy line. It's a foggy line. But if you are in a feedback relationship where you know who this author is, you're friends with them, perhaps you understand their intentions behind their story, you know who their ideal reader is. You can much more easily draw that line and say, actually, this is my preference. Maybe I don't need to give that. Versus, I know this isn't fitting their intention for the story. Those are different. Those are different things. Because if you tell them this is my preference, that fucks with their head. They don't need that because that's not their intention. But if you notice something that seems unaligned with their intention and you say, hey, this hit me this way, I was just wondering, is that your intention for the story? Or am I, like, reading into it somehow or am I missing the point? Could you share a little bit more about this? Because I want to make sure that the feedback I give you is helping you effectively reach the reader that you have in mind. Walk me through that. That is a much better place to give feedback from. Versus, I'm going to give you this feedback because I don't like it. And I want you to know that so you could be better. It's different. If you're a writer giving feedback, you need to know what is the author's intention and how is your feedback going to help them reach that intention. Feedback is not about you. That feedback that you're giving that author is not about you and your comfort. It is about helping that author tell the story they want to tell. That's where you give feedback from, not, I'm making you better.
[14:37] Emily: Yeah. And I think another important piece of this, I want to go back to solicited versus unsolicited feedback, right? Because if you just don't give unsolicited feedback, just don't. We're just going to draw a line. Unsolicited feedback is not helpful. If you get unsolicited feedback, you don't have to listen to it. Just period. What we're talking about now is solicited feedback situations, right, where you have opted in to get feedback from somebody, and you might be like, oh my gosh, like in my previous version where I trade pages with someone, and I am surprised that there's themes of sexual assault in it. And that's not something that I want to read. If you don't know how to handle that, you also don't want to be like, oh, I'm just not going to say anything, and I'll give them feedback about everything else and I'll just suck it up, right? You don't have to do that. If something is triggering to you, if you are not comfortable with material that's in someone's work, just have an honest conversation. Just always come back to honesty. Just be like, this is how this made me feel and this is why. And it's me, it's not you. But I want you to continue writing this story, and I'm not the one to support you. Right? You still need to do that. That's still more healthy than saying nothing, but make it right.
[15:54] Rachel: That reaction is about you.
[15:56] Emily: It's not about the story. It's not about them. It's not something that they need to change. And so making that explicitly clear can really help in those situations. Oh, man, I could talk about this all day.
[16:08] Rachel: I know we could, but I don't want to belabor it. I think we've got it. If this is something ever you have struggled with, to be on the receiving end of that. We have known writers who have changed themselves or taken feedback like this really harshly or not let it as if they were at fault, but it's really gotten into their heads and messed with the way that they think about writing and made them question and worrying about themselves. I offer you like, I understand. We've been there, it's okay. And I really hope that you're able to find your ground again. Stand on your solid ground, know who you are, know what story you're trying to tell, and stick to your guns on that. And that's okay. And none of these conversations have to be aggressive or combative. When you give unsolicited feedback that's shaming. You're kind of inviting that. But feedback conversations aren't combative. They shouldn't be. And so I hope if you've ever had a negative experience in this, that this episode kind of helps you move past that and accept like, no, I'm in the right by standing by my true humanity, like staying true to myself. What I believe in, who I am and what I care about that's. Okay, so we fully support you. We fully support every writer who does that and we're wishing you the best, all this happy writing success, we love that and we want you to be who you are.
[17:39] Emily: Yeah. And if you're like, okay, that all sounds great, but who the heck am I? Because it takes a lot to figure out what you want to say, why you want to say it, all of those things and be able to stand in that with confidence. And I think when we're not confident about what we're trying to say and how we want to say it and all those things and what we want to explore, we can be a lot more sensitive to that, to that kind of shaming feedback and question. It a lot more if that's you, you'll know, because in your brain you're going to be asking yourself, is this too much in some way, shape or form? You're going to be asking, is X, Y or Z too much? Is it going to be too much for my readers? And the answer is always no. It's always no. So just answer yourself with no and let yourself explore whatever it is and you might decide to pull back on it later because that's not authentically, how you want to express yourself, but the answer to the too much question is always no.
[18:38] Rachel: Yeah.
[18:41] Emily: Okay, cool.
[18:42] Rachel: Love it. Thank you.
[18:43] Emily: Thank you.
[18:44] Rachel: Thanks for sitting with us, with us. We love these conversations. So to wrap up then, if you have writing questions, if you have something you want us to tackle on the podcast, please feel free to email us in your writing questions, craft mindset, community, anything having to do with those topics at [email protected]. Put podcast question in the subject line. We are collecting all of the questions that we're getting and in a future episode, we're going to go through them together, answer them and give you some love, coaching and advice. So send us those emails and we'd love to tackle your question.
[19:24] Emily: Awesome. If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
[19:32] Rachel: Sign up now to get our free email course. The magic of character arcs. After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
[19:41] Emily: Link is in the show notes. We'll see you there. Bye.