[00:13] Rachel: Hey, writers.
[00:14] Emily: Welcome back to story magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
[00:18] Rachel: I'm Rachel.
[00:19] Emily: And I'm Emily.
[00:20] Rachel: And today we want to talk about making money with your writing. We with our very special guest, Nicole storkistad. So this is our third episode with Nicole. This is part three. Our last part. We've been doing a series on money and money mindset, specifically about writing. So our first part, if you haven't listened to our first or second parts, go do that right now. The first part was about what does money mindset have to do with writing, how do we think about money in our writing lives? And then our second part was where to invest in your writing through time, energy, and money, putting resources into your writing life to get out of it, what you want to get out of it. So today's episode is about how to make money with your writing. So on that note, Nicole, could you give us a quick recap of who you are and what it is that you do before we jump right in?
[01:16] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah, of course. I'm so glad to see you guys.
[01:19] Emily: Welcome back.
[01:22] Nicole Stork-Hestad: So fun. What was I doing? Oh. I'm Nicole Sturkhistead and I own NSH money coaching. I help individuals get over their money trauma and drama so that they can make money decisions that they love and buy a life they are proud to live. Yay.
[01:39] Rachel: I love that.
[01:40] Emily: How good at it.
[01:42] Rachel: Yeah. So if you're coming in episode three here and you've already listened to the other two, you know that we work with Nicole. We have loved working with Nicole in a professional capacity. She's one of our coaches. But we're bringing her to you today because there's so much possibility of what you can do with your writing life. And now we're going to talk about making money with your writing. If that is something that you want to do or that you dream about doing in your future, let's get you set up to start doing that. So where should we start? What are the first things that someone should think about if they dream about making money with their writing?
[02:25] Nicole Stork-Hestad: This is actually such a good place to begin because one of the things that I think keeps people from making money with whatever their passions are, and in this instance, writing, is that they don't believe anybody will buy it.
[02:38] Rachel: Yeah.
[02:39] Nicole Stork-Hestad: They just don't believe anybody is going to want what they have to offer. And if we're thinking about it, writing would become basically a business, right? Like your authorship would become a business. And when you don't believe anybody wants your business or you don't want to put your business out there because you have a fear that people will reject you or not pay you for whatever it is you're providing them, you end up shrinking yourself back within the possibilities of what you can do with your writing and how much money you could be capable of making. And so when we think about the first things to do, the first thing you have to do is to believe that your story is worth reading and somebody is going to exchange their dollars to get their hands on it. And so I think that would be a fun place to start with when it comes to making money with your writing, is believing somebody out there will give their hardearned dollars to listen to your words, your story, come in and let that come into their lives that they would want to pay for that.
[03:51] Rachel: Yeah, man, that is like a huge mic drop. But I mean, honestly, the belief in yourself is you're so right. And I think it's very important that people recognize that. There's all sorts of my brain just feels like it's spinning, but there's all sorts of hesitations wrapped up in that idea of not believing that someone's going to buy it. And there's not belief there's, like, self doubt. There's the ickiness of selling something, which we've worked with you on, specifically on being confident in what it is you're selling. All sorts of beliefs wrapped up in that. But you're exactly right. If you don't believe in your own book or you don't have the belief that someone will purchase it from you or that wants it, how do you ever expect to make money off of it?
[04:51] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah, there's this idea that when we're thinking about that, we want to create this thing and we want to put it out into the world. And we would like it very much if it provided us with some sort of income in return for the labor of love that we have given it to go out into the world and be enjoyed by others and asking for that return. A lot of people also, even just in asking for it, feel guilty. Yeah, they feel guilty saying, here is my thing, my heart, my soul, my work, pay me to have access to it. And that's probably the second thing, right, is that maybe you do have this belief that your story is good. If you're working with either of you in one on one capacity, right. They know for a fact whether or not their story is good, because that is what you do. That is how you help your clients. So if you have that in your brain, like, my story is good, someone will want to read my story. That next step is believing that someone will not only exchange money to read my story, but also, I do not need to feel bad at all asking for that exchange, for receiving those dollars in return for providing access to my work. And so I think that's where we end up going next, is not only do you have to believe that somebody will want to buy your book, it's that when somebody wants to buy your work, you're writing, you let them without guilt, right. You allow that exchange to happen.
[06:38] Rachel: Yeah. So in our intonatious writing in our writing program this month in June. These episodes are probably going to come out in July, but in June we're doing a social media challenge based off of Simone Sold Garbage post challenge where we're posting content on our author platforms. 100 pieces of content over 30 days to create safety showing up online, essentially. And we added like a bonus challenge to this month for everybody to sell their stuff, to make offers to include call to actions like follow me on my newsletter or buy my book. That's part, we've incorporated that into the challenge because it feels really icky at first to do those things, to say, I made this really cool thing. Buy it, or I made a newsletter. Please be on it. Why does it feel so icky if you don't have that safety created? So we want to create that safety where you feel comfortable doing that. But before you get there, why does it feel so weird to tell someone to buy something from you?
[07:46] Nicole Stork-Hestad: I mean, how weird did it feel when you started walking? Yeah, right. It's a weird thing. You fall down a lot. You hit your head. Like if you ever watch a baby, which, I mean, Rachel, I know that you do, because if you watch them start to do the next big thing, right, they have a lot of big feelings. And about not being able to stand up and about just not being able to do it or tripping or whatever, they get a lot of big icky feelings. The point is that they still keep continuing to try walking. And so I think one of the important things is, like, you have to make space for the fact that this is going to feel weird because it is. You've never seen before, right? Like, you've never put yourself out there in this capacity before. And so when you have something that's already vulnerable, your heart and soul, your work that you've poured into that the world is ready to read and you are ready, you know, the story is done, it's complete. You've got to allow it out into the world. There has to be some space. And the capacity for like, this feels yuck because it feels new and I've never done it, and it's scary and whatever other big emotions come along with that ride. And the problem is we make those emotions like a problem. We make them so that feeling them, there's something wrong with us if we are feeling that way, doing this brand new big thing. And the truth is, like, nothing is wrong with you. Those are the feelings that are normal to feel. It's just we decide to turn around or hide or avoid taking that next step into being not only an author, but potentially a published author of some kind. Like a self publishing author and then working to be an author who is self published and also has sold their work. And that's a big deal. Yeah.
[09:58] Emily: I love that.
[10:00] Rachel: Yeah.
[10:00] Emily: All new things feel uncomfortable, and we have this assumption that we should just be good at things from the get go and they shouldn't feel weird. I love that. That's a great visual of a little kid trying to learn something for the first time. We've been working with you for a while, and we also worked with Simone Soul on some marketing stuff. And so we've been working the last few years on really on those two things that you talked about.
[10:29] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Right.
[10:29] Emily: Like belief in because we're talking about writing as a business and we have a business business that's coaching business.
[10:36] Rachel: Right.
[10:36] Emily: But the ideas are still the same. If you're going to sell something, you have to believe that it's worth selling and that people, you deserve to be paid for it. Right. And those two things have been so profoundly powerful for us, I think, at the business level, at the writing level, at all the different levels over the last few years, but they can feel so out of reach, right. When you're like just believe. So do you have tangible things that people can do or think about to start to work through building that belief in their stories and building that belief that they deserve to be paid to have those stories in other people's hands?
[11:24] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah. Now we have two steps, and we're about to move to the third, right. We have to believe we have something worth buying, our story is worth being purchased for. Then we have to accept or receive exchange of value for that story, being willing to accept money in exchange for showing people, allowing people to have access to that work. The third thing that I think and the most important intangible is stepping into that CEO mindset of like, I am a business owner, and now it is my job to literally tell stories about my story so people know about it and want to read it and want to be a part of that value exchange. And so when we think about the idea of just believe, right, but there is a good amount of thought work that goes into like, I am an author, but now I am also the CEO of this work. I am the president of this work. I am the advocate of this work that I have created and need to not just release into the world, but basically shove out into the world into people's faces and say, hey, you should read me because nobody else is going to do that. Nobody else is going to be able to advocate or tell the story of your story better than you. And so when we think about that as in practical terms, like, you guys doing this challenge, right, of like, you've got a post on your author page and tell people you are an author and that you have work to be read, that they should buy it, right? That's that mindset shift. That's the third big, most practical step is I have a responsibility, an obligation to this work that I have poured into to push it into the world in a way that everybody who could possibly be touched by it has the opportunity to see it. And that's important. And I think that when you line those three steps up, believing you have something worth buying, allowing for that exchange to happen and creating the space of it, maybe feeling uncomfortable, especially when you first start doing it and then stepping into the role of an advocate for your work, where it is your job to basically broker the exchange between your work and other people. You get to this place where you can have the opportunity to make money with your writing. But if any one of those steps is left out, the dollars may not come or they may trickle in. Versus if we're lining up all three of those steps and then we keep repeating them. Right. We keep believing that we have something of value, we keep getting more and more willing to allow that exchange and we keep stepping into that advocacy role of being in an owner's mindset of putting it out. It's my job to make sure people know about this thing and we do that over and over again with more and more confidence and power. You can't help but see money start to come from it.
[14:51] Rachel: Yeah, I think one of the things that I would want people to reframe their mindset too, is that you deserve to be in this space. You are not a burden for asking people to purchase your things. You are worth getting that money. You deserve that money. Your work is valuable. Like all of those self belief phrases, the ones that you have to go from, like the external validation, proving mindset that so many of us have, meaning I'm not worthy of this money until I prove myself, shifts to I already have this value. It's fucking amazing. Go buy my book. This is going to be so cool for you. It's a shift in mindset to start holding the deserving and the value inside of yourself so that you can start to feel comfortable showing up online or putting your work in your book out there. Because you don't have to prove that your work is valuable to earn that money or to be deserving of that money. You have made your work. It exists, put it out there. You already are. Sell it. So I think people often have that backwards where they're looking for the validation through the money when they should validate themselves and then the money comes.
[16:24] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah, talk about another micro.
[16:27] Emily: I see this a lot too. We're talking specifically about self publishing today, but I see this a lot in the reasons why some writers choose to go the traditional route over the self publishing one. Because they feel like if they get the external validation from an agent or a publisher that their book is good enough, that then they will feel like it's good enough and they'll feel comfortable marketing it or someone else will push it for them. Which is the wrong reason to go that route because it's not true. Just because somebody, just because an agent or a publisher chooses your book doesn't mean that you're going to feel any better about it. You have to do that work for yourself and it's not the right reason. Which publishing path you choose is a business decision. It should not be made from a place of, well, I just need someone else to tell me that it's worth publishing. If you don't think it would be worth publishing self publishing yourself, then think before you start sending it out to agents because you have to build that belief in yourself before you pick any of those publishing paths, in my opinion.
[17:46] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah agree. And there's no right or wrong publishing path. It may even vary by the amount or kind of work you are putting out into the world. Absolutely path is the most effective for that work. To reach the audience, like you said is a very strategic business decision. And when we start making business decisions from invalid feelings right like invalidation feelings of invalidation, we are going to make really bad decisions. And also you are not going to have the capacity to hold space for all the other big yucky feelings that come from somebody else taking your work and pushing out into the world with you feeling like an imposter this entire time. And so doing the work of stepping into the belief that your work is worth buying. Doing the work of allowing with gratitude and confidence the exchange of value between your work and money from someone else. And then stepping into that CEO role where you make strategic decisions about how to advocate for your work and put it out into the world so that you can have opportunity to accept that money. Right is critical. And it all starts in the brain books and stories. I always say money is always made and spent on the mind before it is ever going through your bank account. And so if you want to start making money by putting your work out there in whatever direction or form that may be, you have to have in your head that this is going to work. I'm not doing it because I need something from someone else to tell me I am good enough and I have the right, as Rachel said earlier right, to be in this space, to take up space in this authorship world and be read. I have the right to be read.
[19:53] Emily: Yeah.
[19:55] Rachel: So I want to talk about a client that we both have a shared client as an example. So we share a client. We'll call her Madison. She writes under other books, which we'll push because you should buy her books. They're amazing. But Madison is a writer that we both share as a client who makes money off of her writing. And I would love to hear from you where she was when she first came to you, because I know that she came to us because you told her to go on a path to get help, to publish her books, to make money. That seemed a little roundabout, but she had a vision. She wanted to make money. I understand she came to you. You told her, find a book coach, and then she came to us. And now she's making loads of money self publishing, and she is doing a really great job. So let's start with what was her transformation like? You were telling us a little bit about it before our call.
[21:00] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah. So Madison, my Madison, what did we describe? We use the word we use she's a honey badger. A honey badger. Madison right. Is an amazing person. So if you're listening to this, Madison, we love you. When Madison hired me, she was a recent graduate who was working on getting her first corporate job. And we did that part. And she was very nervous about starting our journey together, but also knew that it was the path that she wanted to take, because, like most people who come to work with me, they want to earn and spend lots of money. And so that's what she asked me to help her do. And so we had a lot of money, trauma and drama that we needed to work through, connected in all areas of life for Madison. But about I wish she was on the call for a second, because she'll probably correct me in her head when she hears this, but I think it was around 18 months, between the 18 month and two year mark of working together. She really started talking about how she has these stories in her head that she wants to get out. And we started with the resource of time, making time to put those stories out, to really start writing on a regular basis. I said, if you have a desire to write, then you have to use your time capital. You have to spend your time capital on writing. So we started crafting her calendar. First and foremost, to use a very available well, not very available, but to create availability in her time capital. And I like to think about time, money, and energy all as spendable resources. We have to allocate them accordingly, or people will steal them from us. Right. The money will go somewhere. The time will go somewhere, the energy will go somewhere. And we would like to ideally be the intentional authors of where they go at all times. Right. So we started editing the calendar and had her start writing. And the stories started coming out and she became very much she really stepped into the belief that she had something worth reading. That first step. I have something worth reading, but not yet. There was this mentality of, like, it's not quite right or whatever. And so we started discussing, then you need to invest in yourself as an author, and you need to start thinking about and so we started building that second step of like, in order to allow for any financial exchange to come from this writing, you have to invest the upstart. You have to upstart your writing. So we need to get you a coach. And so we started looking at not only the time right, where she was carving out time and negotiating at work we started negotiating at work for more flex time so that she could get her work done quicker and have more time for writing. But we started looking for the best book coach possible, the best possible book coaches within a price range that we were able to. We even, I believe, negotiated a raise before she hired her book coach, that she could have a amount of money to invest in herself in her writing. And then she really stepped into that mindset of like, well, actually that came a little bit later, but she stepped into this mindset of like, I am going to exchange value for value over writing. So that first exchange was her money for better writing skills and better writing power. Yeah, right. And once she invested in herself to really self validate her own skills, to build her confidence and then have it so that there were eyes on her work yes. And she hired the best book coaches that I like. We did a ton of research on the best possible book coaches. It was golden, mate. We did all this. And I began to watch as she started using her energy, time and dollar capital to really explode in her authorship practice. And once she started working with you guys and really getting the work out of her and into the formats that she wanted, that she felt proud to put out into the world, there was a piece of her that all of a sudden stepped into that CEO role of like, well, I made this, right? Like, I made this. I'm not going to just hide it away. I'm going to put it out there. And so she went through the self publishing steps. It was actually one of her homework assignments, I think, to like, how do you want to make money off of this? Is this a college you feel like you want to do and work through the steps of becoming a self published author? And I will say this, her first book, it went out there for $3.99. It went out there for $3.99. And I tell you, that not to be like it's a cheap book. It's not by any means. She believed that $3.99 was worth for her to practice the vulnerability and the bravery of putting the work out there for purchase and so having that small exchange, right? I believe that those first books brought in almost $45,000 in first year, right? Self published at $3.99. And when you think about that journey, when you think about that exchange, that little bit that she could have been like, well, 399, she could have had thoughts about putting her work out there for what would be considered a lower dollar amount versus an $18 book or a $25 book. She could have had lots of thoughts about that. That's not enough, or It's not worth it, or this is all I'm worth. She could have had a lot of self concept issues around that as an author and as a person. But instead she said, I have made this. It is going into the world. I am putting it out here for this price. So anybody it's a no brainer to buy it, right? If somebody wants access to this kind of book that I have created, they will have no reasons not to buy it. And I am going to accept that exchange and I'm going to market it myself as well. And so we see this beautiful case study of somebody that their story was just inside them, hiding, but wanting to come out, go through, expending their resources, all of them time, energy, and dollars to make space for becoming this authorship business and then allowing themselves to put the work into the world in a way that guaranteed that value exchange back, basically. And so when we see that, it makes you wonder, like, why are more people doing that? All these authors who have these beautiful stories doing more of that? And the only thing I can figure is that they're just scared.
[28:55] Rachel: Well, I was thinking this entire time one of the things that I loved about Madison when we started working together was that she never let the idea of being afraid or the idea of being uncomfortable. Regardless of whether or not she felt those things stop her from doing something, she did it anyway. Especially in those early days of selling. Her book series is called the Unitam Realm series. The first book is by her site, and she publishes under Sunny Heart. So if you want to check out her books, they're on Amazon. Under Sunny heart. But when she was first selling those books or publishing those books, she was never afraid to go into writers groups and be like, hey, I'm publishing a book. Buy it. And she would tell me, like, oh, I just joined this Facebook group that's got like, 20,000 people in it, and I just posted the link to the book. And I would be like, oh, my God. You did what?
[29:47] Nicole Stork-Hestad: That's crazy.
[29:48] Rachel: And she's like, yeah, just like, what's the worst they could do? Take the post down, but probably hundreds of people will see it first. And I'm like, you're falling out of your chair laughing. I'm sure you told her to do that. She never let whatever fears or narrative she was telling herself behind the scenes stop her from claiming that space that she could take up and saying, I'm here, my books are out. Buy them.
[30:18] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah.
[30:19] Rachel: And people did. She's got four books out now. She's publishing her fifth in a couple of months. And another thing that on top of her, I love to call her tenacious. Like, all of our things that we call tenacious. I feel like Madison is a really good embodiment of that, but her Tenacity on top of that. When she came to work with us as a coaching client, she knew what her goals were. And we very closely worked on imposter syndrome, so that means we built that belief in her intentionally. From the very beginning, she was like, I'm worried I'm not good enough. And so we spent ton of our time working through from a coaching perspective, like, where that was showing up in her book, how that was making her process harder, where those thoughts and fears were coming from, and when they showed up on a weekly basis to be like, why are you so afraid? You've got three books out, and they're doing amazing. We worked through those mindset things, and it built a belief in her. But she also focused really hard on developing a process that worked for her. So the writing process that was going to lead her to how many books she wanted to publish in a year, or what her five year plan is. Nicole, you know Madison, she has that giant big that whiteboard with her five year publishing plan of all the books that she wants to get out, and then her ten year plan of where she wants to be in ten years, and she's got these plans. I don't say that to be like, author, you need to have that, but I say that to be like she knew very clearly what she wanted to do. And so that allowed me as her coach, to develop a process with her that got her closer to those things. She treated her writing process, or she treated her brain as the business, so how could we make her brain be the most effective writing brain for her specifically? So we spent lots of time talking about, okay, where do you want to spend your time? How do we want to create a plotting process that works for you? How do we want to make sure that you have enough time and space to draft so that you can draft things quickly or slowly, depending on your schedule? And it was just like, I think working with you gave her a set of questions to ask herself that then helped us develop those things. But she treated it very much like, I'm investing. Into me. I am the business and I'm not afraid to be the business. I'm not afraid to let my brain do the things it needs to do. Let's work on that. And we did and it is still paying off for her. She's got like six books planned and every week she texts me, I've got another book idea. Like, stop it. You have too many ideas. That right there is the thread that.
[33:18] Emily: I'm hearing in just all of this is the power of investing in yourself. Whether it's the first thing that Nicole that you said you did with her was find ways for her to invest her time. And then once she did that and was like, yes, I want to do this, then you found ways for her to invest her money, and by investing her money, she then found ways to invest in her mindset and invest in herself as the business owner. And I think back to that what we were talking about earlier with this idea of you have to believe in your story. You have to believe it's worth people buying. You have to believe it's worth their time. I feel like there is this crazy secret power of investing in yourself to give you that because there's nothing more powerful than being like, I'm going to buy this workshop or I'm going to hire this coach to give you that kick in the butt. To be like, yeah, I can do this. Because that's what you're saying when you're investing money or energy or time something big into something that you want is you're saying, I believe I can do this. And I feel like you can almost trick yourself a little bit by like the more you invest, the more you believe. And it's just kind of like back and forth. I know for Rachel and I, that has definitely been true for our business is the more we invest in a business, the more we believe in ourselves and it's this kind of self fueling cycle. But tying to our previous episode, I do think that's a big way to set yourself up.
[34:54] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah. Hold on. My brain just did a thing. It connected information. Thank you. And I think this brings us to the steps in making money, right? Money is not supposed to be hoarded. Just like anything else that is left to sit and be hoarded, it spins into chaos. It spins into a fear based space of that money being maybe being able to go away or you losing everything. Right. It goes back to even our very first episode of like, I'm going to die, the world will end. I'm going to die if I use my resources in this particular way. And I think that that's a really big thing to touch on with. Making money with your writing requires you to be someone, the person who makes money with their writing and investing that investment. Emily, like you're saying into yourself, but it's more than just into yourself because if you think about it, most of us invest in ourselves in little ways all the time. And they usually have to do with our outward self, right? Like we get haircuts or we buy new clothes or we put on, you know, like we put on makeup to go out into the world. Or we, you know, we invest in ourselves in little ways all the time. We, we go out to dinner so.
[36:33] Emily: That we don't exercise.
[36:34] Nicole Stork-Hestad: We exercise, we use time capital, we use energy capital, we use capital, capital on ourselves constantly in a lot of small ways. But when it comes to investing in your brain, that feels very unsafe. And I have this informal theory, haven't tested it completely yet, but based on the number of clients I have seen in my lifetime and in the career trip, like whatever timeline that's the word, my career timeline, I think it's because you can't see your brain, right? Think about the things that we normally spend our time, energy or dollars on. We see them. Yeah, right. We see them. And it's the same reason why people won't invest in a retirement planning option or they'll want to use money now rather than invest it for a future use, right. Put it in savings of some kind, whether it's the stock market or just a higher interest account. There's this thing of like, I can't see that, I can't see the change, right? And so when you start to invest in your brain, it's up here, it's hidden. There's no immediate, like, oh, I've seen my haircut, I was brunette yesterday, and now I have blonde highlights, right? Or I see this outfit looks good on me. There is something with the invisibility of the return and the incremental return too, right? Like you're not just like, okay, I'm going to invest with a book coach and the next day you're a published author who has 40 million copies sold around the world, right?
[38:19] Emily: You can't just buy a shirt.
[38:22] Nicole Stork-Hestad: You can't just go buy a shirt and look good. There's incremental amount of progress and return on investment that a lot of people are just not patient enough and or self aware enough to look for. And so I think that's the other part of being willing, the willingness to make money with your writing is the willingness to see that incremental return on your investment in your own brain, to become that author business owner, the business owner of your authorship, and to put your work out there. And so when we think about Madison, one of the big things that separates her and her ability to make money with her writing, even with the books themselves being priced lower than other books in the world, she is making significant dollars doing that because of this shift in. I see incremental progress. I'm going to give myself credit for that. Even if my brain tells me not to. And I'm going to continue to invest my time, energy and dollars into this invisible brain that I have so that it keeps churning out these incredible stories that people really do want to read. And I can continue to have that exchange of work for dollars, like work for dollars at a higher and higher level. And if more people will catch that, if you catch nothing else. Right? It's not just you have to spend money to make money mentality. No. It's a strategic business decision, just like self publishing versus a traditional route to invest in your own brain so that you can step into these roles that make better and better, more strategic decisions about how you would like to make money with your writing. Because the options are endless.
[40:27] Rachel: Yeah, I think this is so important for people to sit within, settle at the same time that they do their mindset work. Because writing a book takes a long time and then you revise it. And then if you go traditional, it takes at least 18 months to two years to see it out in the world. And if you go self publishing, you're in a much more control over how quickly it gets out of there. But often you're not going to see money returned to you for a while. That takes a patience, as you were saying, and it takes a persistence to push through how uncomfortable that feels. You've got to take the chance if you want to see the money come back to you. You've got to trust that you will get there. And I think that there's a balance in that timeline because we see many authors push themselves to the absolute brink to publish as much as possible, to make as much money as possible in self publishing. That can lead to very unhealthy burnout. But then there's the other side where writers will reach a level of perfectionism where they can never get anything out, ever. Because they are so obsessed with it being perfect, they will not put it out into the world until it feels perfect. Neither of those extremes are the path to making money like consistent, sustainable, long term business dollars. Because if you burn out, then you can't do anything for weeks, months, years at a time. But if you're so obsessed with perfectionism that you will not put a book out unless it feels absolutely perfect, that is never achievable. You are never going to hit that time period or you're never going to hit that goal. So you have got to find, as the author, what is the happy medium of that? What feels right for how I'm loathing the word quickly, but what is the balance between how fast you are comfortable putting something out there balanced with what is a healthy, what's the goal that's not perfectionism. What is the book that is good enough for you to put into the world? Because I think a lot of writers will never are reluctant to choose what good enough is. But you have to. That is when you validate yourself and you say, this is good enough, I'm putting it out here. So what if it's not perfect? So what if I get a one star review? So what if there's a typo? Oh, well, I'm still a valuable and loved human being. This has nothing to do with me or my worth. And once you can work on that mindset and find how quickly your process can realistically work for you, like something that's sustainable for you, that, to me, is like the key to self publishing success or the key to making money in your writing, because it's the medium between those two things.
[43:20] Emily: And you can't outsource that. No matter your publishing path, you cannot outsource that. You cannot expect some gatekeeper or somebody else or a critique partner or someone who's reading your book, right? To give you that permission, you have to give that to yourself. And Amy McNee, who's another creative coach that we follow and talk about a lot, she calls it anointing yourself. You have to anoint yourself before you can ask anyone else to, whether it's an agent or somebody you're selling your book to or anything like that, you've got to do that first. And you do that by saying, this is what good enough is for me, because there is no perfect version of your story out there. There is no good enough version that you're trying to reach. There's just the version that for you is good enough. And I like, Rachel, what you're getting at with setting boundaries around that because if you're searching for that perfectionism, it's never going to come.
[44:23] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah, I think what I'm hearing both of you say is really the fourth step in this entire process, right? Is like this decision to be done with the book. The book is finished. It is finished, and it is time for it to go out. And that can tip the scales in any way. But that line you have to walk as somebody who wants to make money, right? And and let's just be clear. Like, you have to want to make money in this fashion is an option. It does not have to your work never has to see the light of day by anyone. Or you could give it away for free all you want. Those are all your choices. But if you have it in your head they would like to make money this way, then there is a point where you have to have that fourth step of this is done, ready for sale. This is done and ready for sale. And what that decision does for someone to make money, to decide to make money, and that's something like any author that has ever made money as an author, they came to that conclusion, it is done work. I'm going to make money this way because that puts you into the practical step of, okay, calling my agent, okay, going on Amazon to figure this whole self publishing thing out. Right. And I think that there's a whole slew of opportunity that opens up after that so that you cannot tip the scales towards burnout. But really, it's that decision of this book is done.
[46:20] Rachel: Yeah.
[46:21] Nicole Stork-Hestad: And now it is time for it to be sold and allowing yourself to just accept whatever big feelings come with that decision and not talk yourself out of it and instead move forward with actually bringing money from that work, bringing in money from that work in that place of decided. And plus people, you can always do like an anniversary revision. We can always make a part two of the book, whatever you want. But having that ability to just say, I'm done, it's done, it is good. Not even it's good enough. Just like.
[47:05] Emily: People reading worth reading.
[47:08] Nicole Stork-Hestad: And then you start your mentality over again. Right. Like, I have something worth reading. People would like to pay me for this work. I am the advocate of this work and the role of a CEO of this authorship business. And the book is done, and it's time for it to go out now.
[47:25] Rachel: Yeah.
[47:26] Nicole Stork-Hestad: That is how those are four steps on how you start making money with your writing. Yeah.
[47:34] Emily: I love it. Shivers.
[47:36] Rachel: So simple.
[47:37] Nicole Stork-Hestad: I know.
[47:37] Rachel: I got logistics, too. I love it. I think this is there is more to the discussion as far as like, well, I need to set up a business plan, and I need a bank account. But all of that is like, I.
[47:52] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Mean, just come hire me in the morning.
[47:54] Rachel: Exactly. Like, that's where you can go work with Nicole. But yeah, get to that.
[47:58] Emily: Where you invest in the business.
[48:00] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah, you invest in business. Like, that business, the business of earning and spending money. Right. But all of these steps you can do on your own. You can do them in the community of the Tenacious Writer Society, or you can do it one on one with the most fabulous book coaches I know, at least one client definitely take their work from being buried inside them to making the projected amount that Madison and I in her tenure plan. That's like a million dollar business. And I did almost fell out of my chair when you mentioned her life words, because we look at like, okay, in three years, how much money do you want to be making as an author? And it helps you to step into that belief. Like, I make money as an author. And so if you can't conceive of yourself as, like, a business owner, and this is a very small, practical step, if your brain can't get around the fact that I have something worth buying or I want to exchange money, start with the smallest step you believe. Start with the smallest thought about yourself and your work and creating money from it, that you can believe something like, I would like to make money as an author. Or I am open to believing I could make money as a writer. Right? Baby, baby beliefs and just say them to yourself over and over and over again so that you can start to believe that your work is connected to dollars if you want it to be. And maybe you choose never for it to be. And that's okay. Disregard this whole podcast. It's just your craft, your passion, that's fine. But if you want to create an income source from this, find that first little, like, I can do this. I can make money as an author. I can make money as a writer. Belief that you can step into and start showering on yourself every day. Put it everywhere on, post it, say it to yourself in the mirror. I can make money as an author.
[50:09] Rachel: Yeah. The more that you say those things and they're like mantras, the more you start to adopt them and then the more comfortable it becomes to put yourself out there and show up in spaces online and post your links in those giant Facebook groups like Madison did. And she would even reach out to her favorite authors and be like, hey, do you have any advice for me? Once you start to tell yourself those things and you start to do those things that are uncomfortable, they become less uncomfortable. And then it's just like, oh, my books out. I'm going to start posting those link places people come buy it. And like Emily was saying earlier, it's just you put yourself through the uncomfortableness, and the more that you do that, it becomes more comfortable.
[50:57] Emily: The more that you can take action too, I think. Especially if it's scary and uncomfortable, the more that you take those actions, like, okay, if I believed this, I would maybe do this. And then you could just jump to the action, right, and you'll start to build that belief in yourself. And I think that's one of the reasons that the garbage challenge can be so powerful in showing up on social media and learning to tell. Ask people for things. Ask them to follow you. Ask them to sign up for your email list. Ask them to do all these things. As you're practicing. You're saying, okay, I can be someone who does these things. And even if you don't believe it, the garbage challenge helps you do it enough that you start to build that boat.
[51:39] Rachel: You start to build it.
[51:40] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah, I believe I am someone who can do these things. I am someone who can do these things right. That's that little baby thought that has the potential to make you lots and lots of money doing something you love if you allow it to. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. Like allowance. We have to have an allowance, a space for this possibility in our brain because the sale of any book is going to be made in your head first. It's made in your head first. That money coming from your work is in your head first. If your head is on board with I can be the person that does these things. Like Emily just said, right? I'm a person who does these things. When you start to believe that, then it gets less and less and less terrifying to be the person who does that because you already think of yourself as the person. Like, this is what you are.
[52:39] Emily: You have your time. I am this person. I am absolutely awesome.
[52:46] Rachel: This is such a good conversation. We have had an amazing time these last three episodes. These are like just that mind blown emoji. I'm just going to put that as like the title of this episode. Mind blown with Nicole.
[53:02] Emily: Imagine us mimicking our heads exponent.
[53:10] Rachel: Thank you again so much, Nicole, for coming on to talk about these things with us. These have been wonderful episodes. If you have been listening to this and you're like, I can be that person, but I'm still a little scared, that is when you reach out for help. That is when you can reach out to me or Emily for coaching. You can reach out to Nicole for coaching. Funny story to wrap up Madison. So Madison came to us because of you and we came to you because of Madison. When we were looking for a business coach, I was telling Madison and she was like, I have the one. Go see Nicole. And we did. Now here we are today. So both of us from all three.
[53:56] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Circles of this, we're a triangle.
[53:59] Rachel: Yes, we're a triangle. But if not us, there are resources out there that can help you along this journey. You just need to make the choice to go after them. Have that belief in yourself and do it. You can do it.
[54:14] Nicole Stork-Hestad: Yeah. But if you want the best, you should really do you want the best.
[54:17] Rachel: Come work with us. We know what we're doing. Awesome. So we nicole will put all of your information in the show notes. If you want to go learn more about her, check that out in the Show notes. Any final thoughts for us before we sign off?
[54:34] Nicole Stork-Hestad: No matter what, go write. And then if you want to make money from it, you can love it.
[54:38] Rachel: Yes, love it. That is the mic drop of this episode.
[54:43] Emily: Thank you so much, Nicole.
[54:45] Rachel: Bye.
[54:47] Emily: If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
[54:54] Rachel: Sign up now to get our free email course, the magic of character arcs. After seven days of email magic, you'll the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
[55:03] Emily: Link in the show notes. We'll see you there. Bye.
